Missile defence in Europe

The next salvo

America’s reconfigured anti-missile shield still irks Russia

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dragos27 wrote:
Feb 18th 2010 5:09 GMT

They came a bit late, it's a long time since 1945. But I guess it's better later than never.

Ioan wrote:
Feb 18th 2010 8:34 GMT

Nobody should be surprised by quick negotiations of/with Romania. Reason: We know exactly what the situation is and what we want.

And the Russians also know what Romania wants. They just pretend to be surprised, probably in order to signal (by default) that they do not like it.

About “the promises” eventually made to Russia ... It might have been some, because the Russian surely insisted to get them. While I also think US never made such promise (why would they?!), some "others" might have made those promises about Central Europe: GERMANY!

Helmut Kohl famously said "I (really) wanted the re-unification of Germany)". Now, if he really wanted that, he may have made some promises to get its wish through with the Russians.

This is why I am NOT AT ALL surprised when the Germans play Russian music in Central Europe. This hurts me, I have liked it to be different, because I like Germany and the Germans, I have friends there.

Anyway, while I welcome the unification of Germany, I find it hypocritical ... actually, no, let’s put it differently - simpler, and politically "correct" by this occasion:

ROMANIA MUST not be stopped GETTING RE-UNITED TWO.

The first step however is for Romania, along with EU and NATO, to help by all means the new democratic Government in Rep. Moldova. The purpose is to help them getting into the position where they can chose what to do. This is the priority. There are all the historical and political and cultural and economic reasons for the two countries to re-unite. But they must do it the way Romanians always united: BY VOTE, which is the Romanian way (democratic), not the German/Prussian way (by occupation and bland taking over and making behind the scene arrangements with totalitarian countries and against their neighbours).

In any case we want no Russian music, we do not want to be tight up to Russia – we had enough already. No more, no thanks.
They are welcome as guests, partners. But they must leave their "music" home.

Garvagh wrote:
Feb 19th 2010 12:27 GMT

What a preposterous American proposal, but the relentless effort to squander tens of billions of US taxpayer dollars on useless missile defence systems crops up somewhere else as soon as it gets pushed down. What a great policy choice for the squanderers: demonise Iran and waste as much money as possible (because huge sums go into the trousers of the tens of thousands of lawyers, lobbyists, other influence peddlers, etc. that make the system go).

Just John wrote:
Feb 19th 2010 3:55 GMT

Fishwrap, you need to provide a better analysis of the historical axis of Russian influence in the Balkans, and consider the real implications of these moves to Southeastern Europe. Isolating Serbia, and bringing Romania into the orbit are classic Wermacht moves to really stop Russia, it has little to do with Iran, excpet that it of course keeps that in check as well. With free access to the Baltic, this is no longer the Iron Lake and the Southern flank of Russia, not the Northern flank of Iran is compromised.

I doubt this will ever become important again, and pray like all should that it never will. But if you really look at the move it is hauntingly simimlar to 1940 all over again.

Just John wrote:
Feb 19th 2010 3:57 GMT

Fishwrap, well let me clarify, Hitler, could have pulled Poland into his orbit as an ally against Russia, and the Polish leadership was probably corrupt enough to fall for that. But he chose Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania instead, employing their armies in Southern Russia. it is really the same move now.

Feb 19th 2010 5:34 GMT

"If American technology develops as expected.." we would have a stable space shuttle program? Only Board members of the BUSD Defence companies know that the Russian threat is benign, but necessary to promote their future technology roadmaps. Your writer has clearly never been in Russia, recently!

jason9139 wrote:
Feb 19th 2010 7:51 GMT

someone please reassure me that some of the previous comments are not seriously suggesting that Germany is positioning itself to invade Russia. Again.
And if Europe wants to take the responsibility of defending itself, then by all means, let them. The US has plenty of other things to spend its money on then protecting 730 million people who take their free-protection fore-granted.

Brian Pelican wrote:
Feb 19th 2010 8:24 GMT

Why the hell America is paying for the defence of Europe or even taking the heat for it??? When does Europe carry any water for the US, I would ask.

Extranjero wrote:
Feb 19th 2010 9:34 GMT

Old war policies in a new changed world. Lets put the missiles in Iraq and Afghanistan, the territories we own that surrounds Iran instead. In reality, Iran is no threat to us, we believe it is Russia that is the threat. Good job making excuses George Bush. Now Obama continues the legacy of Bush.

WOI wrote:
Feb 20th 2010 2:39 GMT

I guess Obama's advisers read the polls and found out the attacks of the Cheneys and Palins on Faux News, criticizing him for not being "tough" enough on the firners, were actually working. Sadly, the majority of Americans are so intrinsically gung-ho about kicking firn ass that their own, personal sense of self-worth is diminished if America is not somehow threatening most of the rest of the world (even if it has to borrow money from the rest of the world to do that). Besides, it's an election year, and the Dems certainly don't want to appear more rational than the Republicons, or else they'll be voted out! ;-) Hence the re-starting of the star wars idiocy and the un-re-starting of the dialog with the rest of the world. Enjoy!

movado wrote:
Feb 20th 2010 6:20 GMT

Russia needs to be realistic. There were no promises made after German reunification, because the Soviet Union was in no position to demand anything, it was too busy imploding after decades of economic mismanagement. And why should it shock anyone that Romania and Bulgaria would be excited about a possible US missile base, it would be a boost to their local economies to construct, supply, and provide services to these bases.

@extranjero

Look at a map. The reason we dont put a European missile shield in Afghanistan (besides the obvious security issues) is that its in the wrong place. You cant shoot down missiles heading to Europe from a base in central asia. Also, Russia is not a threat to the US, it was an afterthought for the Bush administration, and the only reason we pay attention to it now is because we want their Security Council vote for sanctions

hmmmmmmm wrote:
Feb 20th 2010 8:27 GMT

Wait, naval based. Does this mean USN will station a fleet in the Black Sea? Given the Russian lease on Sevastopol is almost up, things could get interesting. And whatever happened to all those space lasers, that was the fun part of Missile defense.

nickx wrote:
Feb 20th 2010 8:47 GMT

East European countries want the deployment of US missiles on their soil and Russia does not for one reason. Deployment moves the tripwire in case of Russian aggression to the territory of the country where the missiles are located.

Heappl wrote:
Feb 20th 2010 9:29 GMT

I'm from Poland and I don't like any American forces in East Europe.
It does completely nothing. USA will do nothing for Europe until it will be already too late, in case of unlikely scenario. But it is not the reason, why I don't like it.
There are two:
- I am strongly for European Union Army. Europe will never be treated seriously, if we won't be able to take care for ourselves. What's more EUA would make us more united and stronger politically. Obviously it won't have to match US forces, but it can easily match Russian army (minus nuclear arsenal)
- In spite of the fact, that for eastern European countries, Russia is the only possible aggressor, we have a lot in common with Russians. They are geographically and culturally an European country and especially in east of Europe we do understand each other, maybe except the empire factor, that Russians possess. USA is far from here and they shouldn't dictate us, how we are to talk with Russia. European Union should take care for EU-Russia relationships by themselves. Stronger Europe can actually make it easier.

te.ch.no wrote:
Feb 20th 2010 1:07 GMT

@heappl, Well written!
- Considering Russian behaviour after WW2, countries near the Russian boarder are worried about Russian might, and is looking for a «big brother» who can defend them in case of crisis, but a few US installations are not going to have that effect, just the opposite.
- Living close to Russia we have to find a way to defend ourselves without threatening Russia's security, and thus “forcing” them to neutralize the threat in an unstable situation.

razums wrote:
Feb 20th 2010 1:30 GMT

Ioan,
why do U think, Moldova want to unite with Romania. They dont! And say me please, "tight up to Russia – we had enough already"? What do U mean? Chausescu, whom had better relation with FRANCE and USA,, then with Soviet? Reigan said: Chausescu is GOOD communist! So blame his freins, USA, not us.
So, take more missilies, no problem. Russia do not care, really not about Romania.
ROMANIA MUST not be stopped GETTING RE-UNITED TWO??? Ok, asked people of Moldova, if they want.. Maybe, they dont want, so this is a reason, nobody make referendum, even new democratic Government in Rep. Moldova?

FrankenBeagle wrote:
Feb 20th 2010 2:06 GMT

Don't worry, Obama will cave. He always does. The US needs to stop worrying about Europe's defense anyway. Let them sort out whatever satellite status they have with the Russian Empire.

Ioan wrote:
Feb 20th 2010 4:03 GMT

Razums,

I said: Rep. Moldova must be helped to arrive at the POINT where it (the people) can choose what they want.

For the moment, the territory of Rep. Moldova is occupied by Russian army. Before possibly reaching this POINT, the Russian army must go home.

Last time when people in this land were free from the Russian army, they chose to unite with Romania. When the Russian army occupied again this land, Russia killed or sent to prison ALL the members of the Parliament of this land who voted for unification. The same Russian did with the citizens - especially the leaders or the most vocal - who opposed the Russian invasion and rule.

Two decades ago, even before Romania get rid of Ceausescu (a product of the system imposed by the Russian, even though he then turned against Moscow), people in Rep. Moldova fought for having BACK the right to speak Romanian. And they got it. This even made enthusiastic a lot of Romanians in Romania proper (those having TVs antennas able to capture Moldavian Television and watch it secretly) that a change is needed. After Ceausescu’s fall, there was a lot of momentum about re-unification. Only that very quickly, what a coincidence – isn’t it ??? – the Russians installed a puppet “government” (made of Russian citizens) in the eastern part of Rep. Moldova to create a conflict meant to divert political and public attention and resources and from RE-UNIFICATION. Soon after the “Russian peace” returned in the area, the pro-Russian governments re-turned to Rep. Moldova, and Romania suddenly became the enemy.

Now that a democratic Government is back in Rep. Moldova – thanks to the youth and all the people Rep. Moldova, and DESPITE all Russian propaganda and economic and media occupation – now the European Union (Romania included) and Rep. Moldova can talk to each other. And RE-UNIFICATION is again a topic; of course this topic has a fore-runner: consolidation of democracy and rule of law, and economic and social interactions with Europe and – of course – Romania, or rather current “Western Romania”.

GOT IT ?

dragos27 wrote:
Feb 20th 2010 6:19 GMT

Those concerned with what will Russia say about the missiles in Romania should know that we don't really care about russian threats because we've already experienced the worst from Russia and we've kind of seen it all. Military occupation? Done that. Deporting our people to Siberia? done that. Forcibly russifying our people? Done that. Natural resource theft? Done that. Communism plague for 50 years? Done that. The highest price for gas in Europe? Done that, done that, done that...
In the face of all these misfortunes, what else is there to experience or fear that we haven't already experienced?

Seven839 wrote:
Feb 20th 2010 9:22 GMT

just john: "Isolating Serbia, and bringing Romania into the orbit are classic Wermacht moves to really stop Russia..." etc. etc.
=====

...and the cold war mentality continues even the calendar reads February 2010...of course an unemployed military would see the world always from a cold war perspective.

Ioan...your comments display not the hate of the communism, but the hate of the country (Russia) and its people. Unfortunately.

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